Whenever I meet someone who’s got a really cool job, who runs a thriving business, or who has completed an amazing project, I always want to know: “How did you do that?”

I’m always curious to hear the “behind-the-scenes story” — who they emailed, what they said, how they got their first client, how they got their foot in the door — the exact steps that they took to achieve their goal.

HOW DID YOU DO THAT? is an interview series where we get to hear the REAL story behind someone’s success—not the polished, neat and tidy version.

To see a complete list of all the interviews that have been completed to date, head over here.

Name: Grace Kraaijvanger
Location: Mill Valley, California
Profession: Founder of The Hivery

You’re the founder of The Hivery, a woman’s co-working space in Northern California… and one of the first women’s co-working spaces in the country.

Some Hivery members are entrepreneurs, some are consultants, others are writers. All kinds of interesting people working on all kinds of projects. I recently became a member and I love it. There is such a creative, focused energy in the air whenever I walk inside.

Can you remember the exact moment when the idea for The Hivery came into your brain? Did it come as a sudden flash or was it more of a gradual realization? What was the inspiration behind this project? Walk us through the story of how The Hivery got started.

I definitely remember the sudden flash. I was about 27 years old. I was living in San Francisco and I was a professional dancer, teacher, and choreographer. I worked with contemporary dance companies. I was very much in the artist scene in San Francisco, which is a very vibrant scene. And I was interested in opening a dance studio. So I think I was an entrepreneur before I realized it.

I started seeing these really interesting spaces, some of which I could afford, and some of which I couldn’t. But as I would look at those spaces I kept thinking, “Wouldn’t it be cool if there was a space where women gathered to make art and work on projects?” I envisioned a creative co-op for women—women like me and my dance friends. I didn’t know what to call it—back then “co-working” wasn’t a word.

During that time, my side job was marketing consulting. I did that to pay my bills and pay the rent. I had a home office. At first, I thought working from home would be so great, because I had so much flexibility. But working from home can be lonely, too.

Fast forward several years. I had retired from dancing. I was doing a lot more marketing work, but I was feeling pretty bored with that part of my career. I felt like my life needed an infusion of creativity. I really missed the dance community.

I told a friend of mine, “I need a massive change. What I’m doing right now is not working. I have this idea about creating a space for women where they can come together and work and support each other. Not just an ‘office’. It would be a community.”

And my friend looked at me and said, “You told me about this idea 10 years ago, and it’s time you get on it.”

Isn’t it funny how certain ideas seem to follow us—coming back into our minds, over and over? Like an idea that you just can’t shake off? That has definitely happened for me, too. So after that conversation with your friend, you realized, “OK, it’s time to really do this.” And then what happened?

I started to look at spaces again. When you’re on the right path, the doors open. So within two weeks, I found a space—a 1000 square foot loft in an art gallery. It was the perfect place to start The Hivery.

It was small, but the commitment and the risk were not very big. I thought, “This is my Petri dish. This is where I can try this idea and see if anyone comes.”

I started putting the word out. It was slow at first, but the answer was always a resounding “Yes!” once I could get the women into the space.

Pretty soon, I began wondering, “What if this could be more than a co-working space? What if we have workshops and events and learning opportunities and mixers and social stuff and wellness stuff, too?” I started experimenting. The more I threw into the experiment, the more I learned what resonated.

I’ve never been so sure this is what I was put on the planet to do. Even when I work hard there is an ease. This is my life’s work.

How did it feel to walk away from your marketing job and start The Hivery? Was it a scary transition? Were your colleagues and friends surprised? Did anybody say, “Are you really sure?” What did it feel like for you?

I have this little green notebook, and it’s from that year of my life where I was trying to figure out, “Should I do this? Should I not do this? If I do this, what the heck is it?”

I still look at it. It’s hilarious, because it says words like “creative, collaborative, open space, light filled, fabulous, collaborative opportunities for women to learn and grow.” It’s The Hivery—and I wrote it all out without knowing what it was.

But in that green journal, I have pages of pros and cons about whether or not I should leave my marketing job. Because the job had a lot of great qualities. I was paid well. It was a company that was based in Connecticut, so I worked from home, which was great because I had two small kids. By the time they were shutting down in Connecticut, it was 3 o’clock here. I could pick my kids up from school. I worked pretty autonomously and independently; I was creating something for a company that was growing really quickly that seemed to have a lot of potential. On paper it was a really good job. I couldn’t figure out why I felt so dissatisfied.

What I finally realized was that I was working to fulfill somebody else’s vision. I was spending 90% of my work days alone in my home office feeling totally isolated and lonely, and then that feeling of isolation would turn into feelings of self-doubt.

It is interesting as I look back at those pros and cons, because I really thought that it was a very difficult decision that I was struggling with. At the time I thought, “Am I crazy to give this up?” Well, now I think, “I’d be crazy to not give it up.”

As you mentioned earlier, you’ve been hosting a lot of events at The Hivery. You’ve done workshops on entrepreneurship, mindfulness, navigating stress, finding balance, and many other topics. Tell us about the very first Hivery event. What was the topic? How many people came? Was it free or did you sell tickets? Were you nervous that nobody would show up?

I think I did my first Hivery event without knowing it was a Hivery event.

What happened is that my kids’ elementary school was having a silent auction and I wanted to donate something. So I donated a lunchtime event called “Women Inspiring Women.” It was a conversation about creating “creative community among women.” I remember writing a description of the event, and I hesitated so long before I pressed “Send.”

I kept thinking, “Maybe no one will sign up. Maybe no one else wants to have this conversation. Maybe this is just the voice in my head that’s having this conversation.” But I pressed “Send” and then… 15 or 16 women showed up.

We had two round-table discussions. I put together a whole agenda and I led a facilitated conversation. And what I noticed that day was that, physically and physiologically, I felt so at home. I realized, “This is what I’m supposed to do.”

You mentioned feeling hesitant to hit “Send” on that email—the email that led to the first Hivery event. You worried that nobody would care, or want to come.

This situation is so common. As entrepreneurs, so often, we have ideas and we’re nervous to put them out in the world because we don’t know what we’re doing, or we think nobody’s going to show up, or we think, “Nobody’s going to understand what I’m trying to do.”

But if you look at any success story, the lesson always is to “start where you are.” Don’t wait until things are perfect or totally right in your head. Just go from where you are and let your work form a life of its own. Do you find that to be true?

Absolutely. I almost missed opening The Hivery all together because of my fears.

One big block I felt was that I didn’t have the credentials to open a women’s space—so I thought. I didn’t study women’s studies. I don’t have a coaching certificate. I had a thousand reasons why I wasn’t qualified.

At one point, I thought to myself, “You need to get a coaching certificate first, and then you can open this thing.” I started looking at these programs that were eight to twelve months long, and I realized that I didn’t want to wait that long. I wanted to jump right in.

I’m so glad you jumped in! And those fears you described… those fears are so common. As a career strategist, most of my clients are women, and I hear a lot of them say, “I would love to do that, but I’m not qualified, or I’m not an expert yet.

Often these are extremely accomplished women with numerous qualifications and so much talent, but for whatever reason they don’t believe they’re qualified enough to pursue their goals.

It sounds like you’ve dealt with these feelings in the past, too. Why do you think so many women feel this way? Some people call it “the imposter syndrome,” believing that you’re a newbie, a fraud, an imposter, even when you’re clearly not. How can women get out of this pattern of self-doubt?

In Tara Mohr’s book, Playing Big, she talks about this as a “hiding strategy.” And that’s exactly what it is. We employ our hiding strategies when we feel fearful, when we feel self-doubt. It’s a way of putting something in front of your dreams or your vision.

So again, my example was that I thought that I needed to be a certified coach before I could open a women’s co-working space. I thought I needed that official credential. Well, it wasn’t true. But it was a way of saying, “I need to delay, I need to hold off for twelve months before I can really explore my vision.”

So I say try. Start first. Start first and then get your credentials later if you need them.

As more and more women wanted to join The Hivery, your original space began to feel cramped. How did you deal with this? Was it a difficult decision to expand and build out your current space?

We had definitely outgrown the space. We were sharing it with an art gallery, and it was certainly my vision to have our own space. I didn’t want to share space with another organization. I was slowly looking around. And then, we lost our lease on that space. It was just the push I needed.

We were given 60 days’ notice. It’s no easy task to find commercial real estate in Marin County, or the Bay Area in general, and negotiate a lease and get it open in 60 days. But I was really determined to do it. I didn’t want to lose the momentum of my customers. I had 28 members, all of whom were very loyal to my vision. And I felt like all 28 of them were part of building something bigger.

When I first saw the new space, there was all sorts of synchronicity that made me feel like this was the right move. It was a former dance studio. It has a skylight that is the shape of a honeycomb in the ceiling. I fell in love with it, but I also had a lot of doubt. I actually felt really sick right before I signed the lease because I thought, “Is this crazy?”

It was a big leap for me. It was a big financial risk for me. And I thought, first of all, “What if it fails?” And second of all, this is my hometown where I’m raising my kids, and I thought, “What if it fails in front of my whole hometown? How embarrassing.” It felt like it was not just a financial risk, but also a personal risk.

I wasn’t sleeping well or eating well. When I look back at that time, I think “Thank God that I didn’t let those emotions and that fear prevent me from doing something.”

Clearly, it was a perfect home for The Hivery. And it was a launch into a whole other level of the business, and a whole other level of this movement. We were one of the first women’s co-working spaces in the country. So to do that then, that was something big. I’m so glad I didn’t miss the opportunity.

What’s been the most discouraging, frustrating, or heartbreaking moment in your career thus far, and how did you get through it?

The biggest heartbreaks have also been the biggest breakthroughs. For example, like I mentioned a bit earlier, when I first started The Hivery, I lost my lease with 60 days’ notice.

It was coincidentally the first month that I had finally made it into the black and was profitable. I felt like I had just gotten my sea legs and then had to scramble.

Ultimately, it taught me to play bigger, find a larger, more beautiful, more visible space, and really take The Hivery to the next level.

3 THINGS

Pretend you’re sitting down for coffee with a woman who wants to pursue one of her passions and start a new project or business.

Imagine this woman is feeling hesitant, wondering, “Should I really do this? Can I really do this? I’m not sure…”

What are 3 pieces of advice that you’d give to her?

1. Stop asking for advice.

You already know what you want. Get quiet and listen to YOURSELF first and foremost. Most of the women I coach at The Hivery have had something they’ve wanted to do for a long time. Stop shopping it around for validation and listen to the voice inside you that has been wanting this for quite some time.

2. Surround yourself with positive people who believe in your potential.

Times of transformation are sensitive and energy is contagious. Surrounding yourself with “Debbie Downers” will only feed the voice of self-doubt. Positive people will ignite the possibilities.

3. Question your hiding strategies.

Saying “I’m not sure” or “It’s too risky” or “I’m too this or that” or “I need another credential first” is often a cover for fear. Inventory if your self-talk is really true. It may not be that you’re not sure, but rather that you’re just plain scared. Being scared is different…you can tackle fear. Be honest with yourself so you know exactly what your inner voice is telling you.

ONE MORE THING…

Do you have “one more quick question” that you’d like to ask Grace? Email me and tell me what you want to know! I might choose your question for my ONE MORE THING… Podcast (Coming soon!!!)

YOUR #1 CAREER GOAL: ACHIEVED

Do you need some encouragement to help you achieve a big, daunting career goal? Would you like to have a career coach/strategist in your corner—feeding you ideas that you’d never considered before, helping you figure out who to contact, and what to say, and checking in to make sure you don’t procrastinate? If so… click here to find out how we can work together. I’d love to coach you!

Whenever I meet someone who’s got a really cool job, who runs a thriving business, or who has completed an amazing project, I always want to know: “How did you do that?”

I’m always curious to hear the “behind-the-scenes story” — who they emailed, what they said, how they got their first client, how they got their foot in the door — the exact steps that they took to achieve their goal.

HOW DID YOU DO THAT? is an interview series where we get to hear the REAL story behind someone’s success—not the polished, neat and tidy version.

To see a complete list of all the interviews that have been completed to date, head over here.

Name: Laurie Wagner
Location: Alameda, California
Profession: Author, Writing Instructor, Founder of 27 Powers

You started out wanting to write music for a living, but then changed your mind and decided to focus on writing stories instead. You found success pretty early on; you have written five books (all published by Chronicle Books) and have been published in numerous magazines.

Writing is a tough way to make a living, at best. But you have persevered. You have allowed yourself to define what it means to be a writer in very broad terms. Can you talk about that a bit? How were you able to allow yourself to grow as a writer and also figure out a way to make money?

Everything that I’ve done in the last 25 years has had something in common. I worked in book stores, I went to work for a major N.Y. publisher, I wrote for newspapers and magazines, I wrote books, worked on documentary films, and then I became a writing teacher. I never had a strategy or a game plan – but I see now that all of those jobs had writing/publishing/creating in common. My love of words and writing, my love of books and stories – – that love got to express itself in a variety of ways – so I was lucky like that.

And I’m also practical. So while I’ve always been an artist, I’ve always had my eye on where the money was going to come from. Making a living writing for magazines or writing books was wonderful, but it wasn’t always practical to make things for the market and depend on that market for my income. I had little kids, my husband was an artist and I needed a stable income. Teaching became that.

Today I teach nine writing classes a week on a video platform to people all over the world, and also live, here at home in Northern California. And I also keep my own writing alive, writing every two weeks with friends.

Take us back to the very beginning of your writing journey. Can you remember your very first piece of published writing? What was it? What happened? Were you nervous? How did it feel to put a piece of your artwork “out there” into the public eye?

My first published piece was for a Bay Area art magazine called Metier. I think it was a piece about naked models. I really loved the interview process. I loved asking questions and getting to know people. It was like permission to be nosy. I was probably stunned to see my own words printed, and a byline. I probably collected 20 of the magazines so I could share them with friends and family. It added a new and vibrant quality to my life. I don’t remember being nervous about being “out there.” I think I wanted more of it.

There are so many ways to be a writer. In the last 15 years, you have pivoted from writing books to teaching others how to express themselves on the page. You teach a practice called Wild Writing that is a timed writing process designed to bypass the inner critic in order to show up authentically on the page. What caused you to make the shift from writer to teacher?

Purely practical. I’d written a few books, they were beautiful, and they did nicely. But I had small children and my husband was an artist, which meant that his income was up and down and that made me crazy. Creating things – like books – for the market was unpredictable, so I needed to have work that brought more stability. Teaching was the way to go. I didn’t mean to become a teacher, but I was good at it. I never got an MFA, which meant that I didn’t teach at the academic level, and so for the last 20 years I’ve been building my own teaching practice. I make all the rules, I create the classes, I teach what’s interesting to me. I’m not beholden to anyone, and because of that I’m free to do exactly what I want. Doing your own thing has a lot of benefits like you can make your own schedule and go in any direction you want. But you also have to work really hard. Being a creative with a strong work ethic has turned out nicely for me.

I am curious… after you decided to really go for it with your writing business, how long did it take before you felt financially secure, like, “OK, it’s working. I’ve arrived where I want to be.” A few months? Years?

Years. I started teaching one writing class a week at my husband’s art studio, and it went to two, and eventually three – but over time – not overnight. Now, 20 years later, I teach four writing classes on video every week, as well as four in person classes every week. I also have virtual classes and I travel and teach – but it really took years to build everything and I’m still creating and building. For a long time – probably the first 10 years of teaching, I was also teaching at a website called Writers.com because I had a lot of classes there, because I didn’t have to do the marketing and because I needed the income. You’ll hear me say it over and over, I’m practical. I only quit teaching there a few years ago. It took me years to build what I have now at 27 Powers – I always kept one foot on something secure until I could handle things on my own. And again, when you work for yourself, you’re always changing it up, making new things. I create new products all the time. I want to offer new things to my clients, but I also want to keep myself interested and challenged.

In addition to teaching writing, you’ve been trained as a professional Co-Active Coach at The Coaches Training Institute. Did this training help your writing and teaching practice? If so, how?

I think learning to be a coach and learning to step into leadership is always important when you’re working with people. I coached for a while, but ultimately took what I learned about people and myself into being a better teacher, a better human being. What I learned there touches everything I do.

What’s been one of the scariest or most discouraging moments of your career so far? What happened? How did you feel? And how did you get through it?

I’m not sure I’ve had a scary moment per se. But I have had some dark times where I wasn’t comfortable in my own skin – where I might have chosen to stay behind closed doors for weeks just because I was going through something. But the thing about my work is that I need to be there. I teach those classes. I have to show up. So I had to find a way to be where I was – to be myself even in the midst of other people – and not only that, to lead from that place. Teaching is a very naked art and I think part of why people trust me is that I am always myself, which gives them permission to be themselves.

I will say that last year – after nearly 20 years of teaching Wild Writing, I heard this tiny whisper in my ear that said, “maybe I’m done with Wild Writing.” But just as quickly a much louder voice came in, “Oh no you’re not.” At 57, I’m probably not going to start a new career, so I had to find a way to keep my own work interesting to me. I ended up creating a 5-month teacher training as well as a new product called 27 Wild Days, for writers. I got busy, I got creative, I upped the ante. That’s my response to fear!

So many writers—and people in general, non-writers too!—struggle with self-criticism and perfectionism. It can feel so difficult to publish a blog post, for example, while feeling like it’s “messy” or “not perfect yet.” Do you have any advice for someone who struggles with perfectionism, who feels like their work is “never good enough” to be shared publicly?

We all go through this. No one is exempt from a little bit of perfectionism. I think deadlines and accountability really help. For instance, I was on stage a couple of nights ago for a story telling event. 12 minutes on stage, no notes. I’d worked for months on this story, and honestly, I was still trying to figure it out the day of the show. I could not get to the heart of what mattered in my story, but I said I’d be there, so I had to find a way to make peace with my story. Was it my best story? No. But I delivered it the best way I knew how. Of course I was afraid that people would judge me or write me off. I wanted to have a great story, but I had what I had. If I hadn’t had that deadline, I’d have dumped that story a long time ago. Deadlines inspire you to keep working and eventually to let the piece go – put it out there. Hopefully there will be many more pieces behind it. Think of the big picture, the long game.

Same with blog posts, which I post every two weeks. They’re not always easy for me. Sometimes I stress that the one I wrote two weeks ago was better than the one from this week and what are people going to say? Will people drop off my mailing list? Maybe. But I need those blog posts. They’re part of my marketing plan to sell my writing classes, and that means I’ve got to do my best and make peace with what I’ve got. Deadlines. Accountability.

Ten years from now, what type of work do you imagine yourself doing? Exactly what you’re doing now? Or something different?

Well, I’m 57-years-old and I probably won’t be teaching 9 classes a week in 10 years. My dream is to teach fewer classes, travel and teach more, make more art, listen to more music, write at least one more book. My entire life since I was a kid, has been focused on creating things. I don’t think that’ll ever end. People talk about retiring. I’ll never retire, though I’ll probably pull back from working with so many people each week.

Lots of people stop themselves from writing because they think, “So many other people are much better writers than me! What could I possibly have to say that anyone would want to read?” Any words of advice for those people?

We’re just human beings trying to communicate with other human beings. Thinking that we need to be smart or special or better than other people in order to share something of value is a tough way to go. It’s too self-critical. We have to trust that what matters to us will matter to others. There’s a good chance it will.

When classes sit around my dining room table to write, I tell everyone that we’re making a witches brew, and that each person has something essential that is needed to make the brew – their own voice – their words. We can’t make the brew without each person – we need their voice. This lets people know that they matter – that the way they think and write matters – and that we can’t create the gold without them. So trust that what matters to you will matter to others.

3 THINGS

Imagine that you’re having a cup of chai tea with someone who dreams about being a professional, full-time writer. They have no idea how to actually do this. What are 3 things you would advise them to think about, or do, or try?

1. Keep the day job.

Don’t put pressure on your writing to pay your bills – maybe ever. Try to find venues to publish your work in, but don’t be sorry or embarrassed that you still have a day job. Be grateful. That weekly paycheck will give you freedom to explore your work and try new things.

2. Write about things that you love.

Cream rises to the top. What you have a deep interest in will shine on the page and readers will feel your passion.

3. Take yourself out into the world and meet people, try new things, get out in to nature.

Being a writer isn’t about chaining yourself to a desk. The best writers have lives, they let things touch them, they have experiences which they then bring back to the page.

ONE MORE THING…

Do you have “one more quick question” that you’d like to ask Laurie? Email me and tell me what you want to know! I might choose your question for my ONE MORE THING… Podcast (Coming soon!!!)

YOUR #1 CAREER GOAL: ACHIEVED

Do you need some encouragement to help you achieve a big, daunting career goal? Would you like to have a career coach/strategist in your corner—feeding you ideas that you’d never considered before, helping you figure out who to contact, and what to say, and checking in to make sure you don’t procrastinate? If so… click here to find out how we can work together. I’d love to coach you!

Whenever I meet someone who’s got a really cool job, who runs a thriving business, or who has completed an amazing project, I always want to know: “How did you do that?”

I’m always curious to hear the “behind-the-scenes story” — who they emailed, what they said, how they got their first client, how they got their foot in the door — the exact steps that they took to achieve their goal.

HOW DID YOU DO THAT? is an interview series where we get to hear the REAL story behind someone’s success—not the polished, neat and tidy version.

To see a complete list of all the interviews that have been completed to date, head over here.

Name: Jules Blaine Davis
Location: Los Angeles, California
Profession: Kitchen Healer

You call yourself a “kitchen healer,” which is a pretty fabulous job title, if you ask me! You go into people’s homes, you talk to them about their relationship with cooking and food. You help your clients identify what they’re truly hungry for, both physically and spiritually, and then you help your clients come up with new cooking traditions that help them feel nourished and energized. It’s kind of like therapy or life coaching… but with a foodie twist. How did this all begin? Did you just wake up one day, and decide, “I’m a kitchen healer, that’s my job, now?” Or was it a more gradual process?

I would say that I’m still becoming a healer. So let’s just put that out in the space.

The beginning of the work began when I became a mother. Being a home for a body began many conversations for me. Of course, you want to nourish that being and to do that you need to nourish your own body, even look at your own body, even remember that you have a body.

I’m someone that loves to find out about fun things and then invite the person to come to my house and do them. At that time especially, I loved having people in my home, and so I had a music class in my home, and moms would come and I would be roasting some veggies and quinoa in the rice cooker, and my son would be napping, and then by the time the class started hopefully he would wake up.

Everyone would be breastfeeding and banging the drum and just connecting with each other in the only way we really knew how at the time, through deep exhaustion and knowing that this was our one outing of the day.

And inside that, I just really loved nourishing people and it was never an “event” for me. I never felt like “Oh my gosh, people are coming over and it’s an event.” It was simply “Oh great, more bodies to feed.”

I would just throw stuff in the oven and turn on the fire. The women gathering in my home were sharing such profound stories, and also they would share about how they have no idea how to be in the kitchen and create a sense of home. They didn’t know how to boil water, they didn’t know how to feed themselves, they didn’t know how they were going to nourish their baby.

And listening to all the stories and reading the few Michael Pollan books that had come out, and Alice Waters, and also Rachel Naomi Remen and Mary Oliver, and just my background in what I hunger for, I realized “Oh my gosh, these women are starving.”

You say “these are women are starving.” Starving for what? For food? For something more than food?

Starving for nourishment on every level, I would say. Physical, emotional, spiritual. That is not to say I wasn’t hungry! I was hungry for their stories. I was hungry for their hunger. So the gatherings with women and food and beauty and healing began. We were all hungry for each other. We still are. We need each other.

It was about food, but also not about food. Because really, where we are nourished or where we aren’t nourished shapes our entire body. It shapes our life. It shapes the relationships we’re in. Our physical shape and our emotional shape. And so the beginnings of my work were really about just going into women’s kitchens.

So, women in your community would invite you into their kitchens… and then what would happen? Cooking? Talking? Counseling?

At first what I did was organize. “Oh the foil can’t afford to be in the drawer next to the oven ’cause there’s only one drawer and you need other things in there in order to put the fire on.” These kitchens were not being used and even if they were, it was hard to get in there. All of the beauty that was their kitchen was just an empty vessel that needed fire and love and tending and wisdom. The lineages that were in that woman needed to arrive.

I would ask her questions like, “What do you think about this peeler? What do you think about this knife? Do you use this? What do you think about it over here?” I’d move all the wood spoons—if they had maybe even one—into a cracked pot from a cactus outside that was dying and then just do that, put some salt in the jar, put the butter out. Get a big old Straus milk bottle and fill it with  water and just get the lentils in some Ball jars. The major movement in their homes that these small changes made,  blew them away.

Whatever the stories are, they all live inside what happens in the kitchen or what doesn’t happen. And so, we get to rewrite that story in how we set the kitchen up, in how we tend to it. And that is where I began.

And then what happened after you re-organized the kitchens. Was that enough to make a deep, lasting difference in your clients’ lives?

I would work with all different kinds of women, wherever they were. It was like restructuring, re-building, getting the mortar and pestle out to build a culture that where one did not exist

Some people naturally have an aroma in the home—the chicken soup on the stove, the beans and rice in the oven, because it’s in their culture. All of us long for that deeper warm nourishment and where one does not exist, we need to build it.

So, I would do that. We would go to the market, we would gather, I would show up the next day and cook with them, make tons of food, bring the smells and heart into the kitchen. We’d do it for a few weeks, I’d leave, and three months later, I’d come back and see that our work didn’t fully integrate into their day to day lives.

I realized that the stories they would share with me while we were cooking, while we were gathering, all they had to say about this bowl or this teacup was where the medicine lives. This was the bridge to where they wanted to get to and who they were becoming as women, mothers, nurturers.

On this bridge was grief of what didn’t happen, or what did and how wrong it was or just the deepest longing to be held and loved in the way they could feel. There was shame and vulnerability and hunger. All of these pieces were the medicine they brought me so they could heal and turn on the fire in their kitchens and in their lives.

The “kitchen healer” was born in that realm, but really it was like, kitchen and then healer came later.

As you began doing this work as a kitchen healer, were you able to find plenty of clients right away? Or was it difficult?

It was word of mouth and it was not easy. The answer truly is that I just kept showing up for the conversation because I was so hungry for it. I’d show up in many ways; I’d show up catering something for a group of doulas, I’d show up doing different things with food, that really wasn’t aligned with what I was doing; but then I would share while they were eating. I got a few clients, but it wasn’t sustainable. But those few clients got me to the place where I could buy the food for the next gathering of women that would come over.

It was also a time of grief for me. I needed to learn how to make money as an artist, and in the beginning I felt horrible that I couldn’t figure it out. But I just kept saying “yes” to everything where I could share what I was up to. I just kept showing up to myself. I had lots of doubts, to be sure. I just think that I knew I was hungry for this connection, and I figured if I was hungry, they must be hungry too.

Now that you know the depth and the complexity of what you’re unpacking, what are the different ways you work with people? Do you work with them one time only? Do you work with them over the course of a month, over five months? Do you have packages? Or is it more organic than that?

I mostly work virtually. Right now, I’m doing a five-month journey and I’m only working with five women. The journey might begin with me learning their emotional landscape, their story, and it’s not always about food, but of course it always comes to that. And then we’ll go in the kitchen, virtually, and I’ll see where they’re at and what they’re inside of, and also just how they’re eating, what they’re eating, but it’s not so much nutritional as it is how they feed themselves. Over the course of five months they get to reshape and rewrite their story inside their lives. And of course my ultimate goal is that they integrate all this learning, so that these are real changes.

What’s beautiful about the journey is that they have me at any point. Some clients write me every single day, some clients write me every week, some clients just see me for our 2-hour session each week. The more you lean in, the more you’re held accountable, the more you’re willing, transformation occurs. Accountability is a big part of it. There’s a lot of different modalities inside the therapy that helps reveal and unravel deep needs and deep hungers, and so when they come up, they’re held in it. I’m right there with them the whole time.

I also teach a class once a month in Culver City called Body, which is a two-hour experience where we move our bodies to phenomenal music. There’s poetry woven in, and then we circle and have wood board love—where I put beautiful food out on handmade cutting boards and we talk and eat and connect.

The only way to really be with me physically, at the moment, is through that class and on retreat—both in October and May in British Columbia.

You recently got interviewed on GOOP, Gwyneth Paltrow’s wellness and lifestyle blog. How did you feel when that interview came out? Did it feel exciting? Did it feel strange to be thrust into such a big public spotlight? A little of both? Also, how did that interview come about? Did they contact you out of the blue?

It was the first time the work had ever gone out into the world in a translatable way that people could really hear it. It took10 years, and it felt phenomenal. The work was completely seen and held by them. Elise, the main mama of the Goop world, had heard about me for a few years. We know a few people in common. After many years of gathering so many different kinds of women, you never know who’s at the table, and you never know who they’re talking to later, who they’re going to get on the phone with when they leave your house after a day of beauty and nourishment, and so I think over time people begin to know who you are.

Again, it connects to the “showing up” piece. So the Goop article was an amazing “hurrah.” I’m still so honored to have it out in the world. I love that it’s definitely cleaner and more organized than my own way of sharing my work.

The article came at a perfect time in my career. I wasn’t ready before. I had to figure out my business. I had to heal my money wounds. So when women wrote me because they read the article, I was ready.

More than anything, what was the most rewarding result of the article, was hearing from women who were in the women’s liberation movement, grandmothers who wrote me and thanked me for naming something that hasn’t been named. I would just sit at my computer crying. I long for elders. I long to be with women in their 60s and their 70s and their 80s and their 90s.

We so need that. We don’t need a bunch of 30-year-olds hanging out and talking about how much they know. That’s not serving the world. We all need to be together in circle to be talking about what is hunger. Where did you come from? What’s shifted for you? Oh, you made it through that. I’m going to make it through this. That is, I think, the utmost nourishment.

Ten years from now, what type of work do you imagine yourself doing? Exactly what you’re doing now? Or something different?

I would say that in 10 years, I would love things to be with more ease.

I see this work being much more prominent in conversation, definitely integrated more into the culture. I see it taking on many lives of its own. Inside all different homes, inside women gathering more because they’re inspired by the work I’m doing.

I definitely see that I will be writing books, and I see a lot of travel with those books. The other thing I really see and really want is that I want to sit with grandmas. I want to sit with grandmothers in the kitchens of Italy and in all different cultures. I just want to take notes.

I will keep showing up for whatever scares the hell outta me, what is so uncomfortable, continuing to move out of my own way and keep showing up for what is possible. And if that means more books and traveling, if that means meeting the most divine, gifted humans on the planet that don’t have an Instagram feed or aren’t completely famous or whatever that is, I just want to keep expressing and being.

3 THINGS

Imagine it’s 10 years ago. You’re just beginning your kitchen healing business. What’s some advice you’d give to that younger version of yourself?

1. What would I say to her? Dance more with your clients in the kitchen. “Put on the music and dance with them.”

2. The second is, “stop over-laboring, you’re enough.” It’s hard to not over-labor when you are just starting and walking in a forest that no one has walked before. But I just kept pushing. I could have taken a breath.

3. And the third would be, it’s going to be okay. It’s a long road. Fill that fear, that loneliness, that “Oh my gosh, wait, I sent this thing out and no one replied”, fill that with yourself. Fill that with a walk, a tea, an amazing book you love. Go away. Fill that, that nonsense, that noise of “Oh maybe it isn’t a good time to do that,” or “Maybe I’m not going to make money doing this.” Fill that fear with something that’s nourishing.

There’s a beautiful quote that I’m going to end with by the poet Rupi Kaur:

“Loneliness is a sign you are in desperate need of yourself.”

That’s sums up what I try to do with my work. Bring women back to themselves.

ONE MORE THING…

Do you have “one more quick question” that you’d like to ask Jules? Email me and tell me what you want to know! I might choose your question for my ONE MORE THING… Podcast (Coming soon!!!)

YOUR #1 CAREER GOAL: ACHIEVED

Do you need some encouragement to help you achieve a big, daunting career goal? Would you like to have a career coach/strategist in your corner—feeding you ideas that you’d never considered before, helping you figure out who to contact, and what to say, and checking in to make sure you don’t procrastinate? If so… click here to find out how we can work together. I’d love to coach you!

Photos: Emily Knecht, Cynthia Perez, Charley Star, Dewey Nicks and TEDx.